Talk:Ojos del Salado

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Ojos del Salado is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

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Date	Process	Result
January 19, 2022	Good article nominee	Listed
March 12, 2024	Featured article candidate	Promoted

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Is this a reliable source?

This group of mountaineers has a museum and stuff but I don't know anything about them. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:00, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just undertook a major expansion

Based on a more comprehensive survey of sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:01, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ojos del Salado/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ganesha811 (talk · contribs) 21:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I'll be reviewing this article, using the template below. I hope to complete the review over the next week. Ganesha811 (talk) 21:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Full review to come, just a quick note: "complex volcano" is jargon and should be wikilinked. Hmm? It is linked. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Yes, I added the link as I did my prose tweaks/review. A few other notes: Is the volcano active, dormant, or both? The lead states it is dormant, but then immediately says it is the highest active volcano. I thought the terms were mostly mutually exclusive? If they're not, that should be made clear. Removed the "active"; there is no other volcano this high, Aconcagua isn't a volcano and Monte Pissis is lower. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] The sentence "Mass movements have left traces..." wikilinks to the political term, which presumably is not what you meant. If there is no article for geological mass movements, the term should be explained in-text as it is otherwise unclear jargon. Changed the link. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] I'm not sure what this sentence means: "Ice buried beneath sand and rocks and ice encased in moraines is more important, it is also retreating but the insulating effect of the cover slows the retreat." More important than what? Please rephrase to clarify. Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] "it did not get much attention from travellers and mountaineers" - this is a little vague. Did not get attention until when? The present? A date in teh past? Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] "In that year an expedition from Tucumán a mountain south of Ojos del Salado, which they mistook for the volcano." Is this missing some words? I'm not sure what it means - did they measure it? Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] All the above issues have been addressed pass.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Pass, no issues.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Pass, no issues.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Pass, no issues, sources are of very high quality.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Pass, no issues.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Nothing found by Earwig or manual spot check.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Quick note: It would be good to include an English translation of the name ("Eyes of salt"? "Eyes from salt"?) in the lead or 'Name' section as appropriate. I am concerned that this kind of literal translation may imply a semantic meaning that the name might not have. Toponyms are often false friends. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] That's reasonable - pass.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	The list of other 20,000-foot prominences around the volcano is excessive detail, which I've removed. If you disagree, let me know and we can discuss. No big deal, I think. The prominences can be discussed in their articles. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Pass.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Pass, no issues.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Pass - no edit wars, highly stable.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Pass, no issues.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Wikilink penitente in the image caption as well as in the text. Other than that, no issues, nicely illustrated. Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:35, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply] Issue addressed. Pass.
	7. Overall assessment.

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: the review is now complete. There are a few issues to sort out, but I don't think we'll have trouble getting to GA shortly. Ganesha811 (talk) 20:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: this article now passes GA! Congrats to you and to anyone else who worked on it. Ganesha811 (talk) 13:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning

In the article the real meaning of Ojos del salado isn't mentioned which means "eyes of the salty one" in Spanish. Aminabzz (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but place names are not always literal; false friends are pretty common. I'd want a source that explicitly connects the name Ojos de Salado to a meaning. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:57, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an example of a false friend. As the article you have mentioned states, a false friend is two words in two languages that look like each other in the aspect of letters but have different meanings.

But ojos and eyes don't look like each other.

Also, there isn't a meaning for the mountain's name in English to call it a false friend. In a false friend the words should have meanings in both languages.

So since the mountain's name doesn't have an English meaning it's pretty safe to translate the Spanish name to English.

Also, you can search the web for the meaning. I've done it and found some sources. Aminabzz (talk) 21:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the concept of a false friend was limited to different languages, you might have a point. But just as "Monti Rossi" at Mount Etna literally means "red mountain" but the actual etymology (via a dialect) is "mountain of ruin", we can't guarantee that "Ojos del Salado" the placename means the same thing as "Ojos del Salado" the Spanish sentence. I want a source that explicitly discusses the etymology. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:01, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Disagreement between about the Polish climbers

Wondering if we need an explanation in text for this edit, in case sources disagree. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have access to the latter source. Does it claim the ascent was made by all members? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This source says . Von Tinogasta auf der argentinischen Seite der Hauptkordillere kommend, gelang der vierköpfigen polnischen Bergsteigergruppe (Justin Wojsznis, Stefan Osiecki, Witold Paryski, Jan Szczepański) die Besteigung von elf Sechstausendern, darunter acht Erstbesteigungen von Gipfeln oberhalb von 6300 m (Wojsznis 1956a, S.107). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would be good to check Wojsznis. Polish source states that only two climbers went to the top. Justyn Wojsznis wraz z Janem Szczepańskim swoje zainteresowanie skierowali ku najwyższemu wulkanowi Nevado Ojos del Salado (6870 m n.p.m.), by po kilkudniowej akcji górskiej stanąć na jego szczycie (26 lutego 1937 r.). In fact the Polish source strongly implies the others went eslewhere at the same time: Jednocześnie drugi zespół: Stefan Osiecki i Witold Paryski działał pod masywem Nevado Tres Cruces (6620 m n.p.m.). Środkowy wierzchołek Nevado Tres Cruces alpiniści zdobyli 24 lutego, dwa dni później Paryski samotnie osiągnął południowy wierzchołek (6630 m n.p.m.). Note the dates. It is unlikely Paryski would climb both mountains on the same day... PS. Cited source is Ostrowski 1984. PPS. Having translated the German quotation, it does not imply they all climbed each mountain, but that the expedition did. Polish text goes into more details and clarifies that they worked in two 2-men teams, and sometimes each team climbed a different mountain. I hope that makes it clear that the German text was initially used incorrectly (to make a claim that is not clearly supported by it wording). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:53, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably best to remove the German reference, then, which I have done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:42, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source on research

Dunno if it's worth a mention: This source about how research in the region is almost entirely under foreign leadership. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which lake?

This book talks about 100m wide lake at 6390m elevation. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-FAC review

Jo-Jo Eumerus - as per your request on my user talk page, I'll give this a pre-FAC look. Apologies if any of these comments don't make much sense; I'm trying to split my attention between this article and the Kansas City Chiefs game on TV

"Topo map Highest mountain: Highest Mountain in Chile" - is this the intended infobox code, because it does not seem right to me
"Waterbodies found at 6,600 metres (21,700 ft) elevation are the highest lakes of the world; if considered lakes they may be the highest lakes in the world." - I think this needs rephrased - it is fairly convoluted with the first part essentially stating that the waterbodies are the highest lakes, but the second part says that if these waterbodies were to be classified as lakes they would be the highest lakes in the world
"the mountain has extremely dry conditions, which prevent the formation of glaciers" - but we do note that there are small, sheltered or isolated glaciers. So maybe rephrase to "which prevent the formation of widespread glaciers" or "substantial glaciers" or something like that?
Isolation is only present in the infobox; should be mentioned in the body as well
13 see also links seems a little excessive; I would recommend trimming these a bit before an FAC
"BAKER, P. E.; GONZALEZ-FERRAN, O.; REX, D. C." - this shouldn't be in all-caps

This is in good shape otherwise. Hog Farm _Talk 22:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm:, thanks. Only other article that comes to mind is Mount Hudson, and only for a POV-balance evaluation (how much space to assign to each eruption) Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

26 million years

With reference to @Lucinator:'s edit, onset dates for volcanism can vary drastically depending on what all is considered to be part of the volcano. Now, that source seems to assume that Mpodozis was talking about Ojos del Salado rather than the region, so it's probably misinterpreting. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Ojo"

With reference to this edit, I am not sure that my version of the Alpenverein source supports this addition. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:41, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm travelling in South America just now so can't check my AlpenVerein map, but looking at the Argentina IGN 1:100,000 map (via Peakbagger.com) the name Ojo de las Lozas appears there. I've been there and can confirm it's a river source. I've got a screenshot of this, but not sure how to show you that thru the talk pages. Maybe we should change the reference to Argentina IGN maps?

Also known to me is the Ojo de Pillahuasi, nearer to Bonete, and the Ojo de San Pedro in Chile. All are river sources. Mountainman7546 (talk) 15:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the way you describe the sources, they merely mention "Ojo" w/o explaining what it means. We can't use sources using a term without explaining what it means, to source text explaining what it means. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:07, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]